Want to cum in more ways than with just my own fingers

Discussion in 'Female Sexuality' started by Persephone, Jun 15, 2015.

  1. Persephone

    Persephone New Member

    Hi, I'm a new member and this is my first post. Although my SO of four years and I have a fantastic sex life, so far I have only ever been able to orgasm through stimulating myself clitorally. If my SO goes down on me or fingers me, I just cannot cum, even though I get very excited. Needless to say, PIV sex doesn't get me there either. All of the above get close, but I can't tip over and end up doing what I always do. Even that can sometimes take a long time, and there can be a risk that SO will start to feel uninvolved. To give a little background, I have been sexually active for 30 years, and only started masturbating and therefore being able to cum about 20 years ago. I have always enjoyed sex (and have had a number of previous partners) and have a strong sex drive. I really want to be able to expand our physical relationship and let him experience fully what he has had in the past with other women. Any suggestions to help me open up?

     
  2. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    I'm afraid I am no help because this sounds to me like a T! I found this article on Orgasm on Command Training or conditioned response (like Pavlov's dog) which I found really interesting because I think if I could get my brain around that, it would be really helpful if not solve my problem. Actually this is why -- and maybe it's backwards thinking -- I don't go in much for toys because I don't want to "rely" on them, if that makes any sense. And, then again, I don't know how to effectively use them either.
    Persephone likes this.

     
  3. Persephone

    Persephone New Member

    Thanks for your response, Ginger. I looked up some of those Orgasm on Command training articles today, and the idea does sound interesting. I get how that could work, and would be interested to hear from people who have had success with it. The easiest way for someone who is not submissive (and I don't think I am) may be to develop a particular fantasy that you use each time - but it has just occurred to me that the problem is that I find it difficult (impossible at the moment!) to relinquish control of my orgasm, even though I want to. Even when I try to use a fantasy, I find I lose focus if my SO is touching me. I guess I am pretty sure it is a head thing - is it even possible that there could be physical reasons for being unable to come when someone else stimulates you if there is no problem in getting yourself off? It seems unlikely.
    I have also been reading about OM: Orgasmic Meditation, through an organisation called One Taste. Have you looked into that, Ginger? There is a video on YouTube demonstrating it. It sounds good, so I am pretty keen to give that a try. I would also be keen to hear if anyone has tried that before.

     
  4. Ginger

    Ginger Member

    Yes, it's all about focus for me. The littlest thing can break it and I have to start over. I've been thinking about a particular piece of music or even white noise (like a thunderstorm and then every time it storms, I go off!!) being a trigger. I like that because of the music being something external to focus on. BUT if I had a PARTICULAR fantasy, yes, that could work. But, still, even in the reverie of a fantasy, my mind wonders. I AM submissive -- or I want to be. I want to make NO decisions -- BUT am just starting to really work on relinquishing control. So, once again, I feel exactly what you're saying. It's easier when I'm relaxed and not uptight at all; so my problem is that those days or week when I am feeling uptight or anxious, I need a tool to help me let it go at least in the moment.

    I will check that out U Tube thing when I get a chance. Thanks for pointing it out!
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  5. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    Is there any chance either of you are taking an SSRI (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitor)? Examples Prozac, Lexapro, Paxil, or Zoloft and there other brand names and many generics. These are a class of antidepressants usually prescribed depression or anxiety.

    My wife takes Lexapro and since has experienced more difficulty with obtaining an orgasm. It takes a little more effort on my part and patience on her part but we still manage to rock heaven and earth. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about the sexual side effects of SSRIs:

    SSRIs can cause various types of sexual dysfunction such as anorgasmia, erectile dysfunction, diminished libido, genital numbness, and sexual anhedonia (pleasureless orgasm).[35] Initial studies found the incidence of sexual side effects from SSRIs not significantly different from placebo, but since these studies relied on unprompted reporting, the frequency was underestimated. In more recent studies, doctors have specifically asked about sexual difficulties, and found that they are present in most patients.[36][37]

    Sexual dysfunction occasionally persists after discontinuing SSRIs. The frequency with which this happens is unknown but believed to be rare.[38][39]

    The mechanism by which SSRIs cause sexual side effects is not well understood. A number of (non-SSRI) drugs are not associated with sexual side effects (such as bupropion, mirtazapine, tianeptine, agomelatine and moclobemide.[40][41])

    There is no FDA-approved treatment for SSRI-induced sexual dysfunction and there has been a lack of randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind studies of potential treatments. There is evidence for the following management strategies: for erectile dysfunction, the addition of a PDE5 inhibitor such as sildenafil; for decreased libido, possibly adding or switching to bupropion; and for overall sexual dysfunction, switching to nefazodone.[42]

    Several small studies have suggested that SSRIs may adversely affect semen quality.

    From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_serotonin_reuptake_inhibitor


    Here is an article by Helen Fisher describing some of the sexual and emotional blunting of SSRIs:

    Lust, Romance, Attraction, Attachment: Do the side-effects of serotonin-enhancing antidepressants jeopardize romantic love, marriage and fertility?
    Fisher, H and JA Thomson Jr. (2007)
    Evolutionary Cognitive Neuroscience. SM Platek, JP Keenan and TK Shakelford (Eds.). Cambridge, MA: MIT Press. Pp. 245-283.

    You can get the short version at this video. She gives a short warning about SSRIs at 18:15 (grab the slider at the bottom of the screen).



    There is an anti-depressant (I don't know if it is an SSRI or not) that claims to have a lower risk of sexual side effects. It is called Wellbutrin. You can find it by Googling Wellbutrin. There may be others. I know nothing about SSRIs other than what I have read on the internet, so I am not making any recommendations just presenting what I have read. It is my understanding that stopping an SSRI regimen without consulting your doctor can be dangerous. As such any changes in your medication, or types of medication should be discussed with your doctor prior to taking any action.



    Last edited: Jun 19, 2015

     
  6. Persephone

    Persephone New Member

    Thanks Fascinated. I personally am not on any SSRI. I was once, about 13 years ago for a period of less than a year. This could certainly be a problem for many women, though. I remember I did not like the inability to access deep emotion, but then that was the reason I was on it in the first place, as I had become overly emotional due possibly to a sort of postnatal depression. Ideas and issues in common here seem to be 'being in control' and 'losing contol' (or fear of the latter).

     
  7. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    Persephone I have several suggestions for you. But first let me qualify that any advice that you get here and especially mine should be reegarded with a jaded eye. Consider it like you would if your lawn mower failed to start and the freindly neighbor says over the fence, try changing the spark plug.

    I am going to assume that you and your SO do not have trust issues.

    First thing Masters and Johnson developed a couples therapy specifically for difficulty with female orgasm. I will research this and give you the details if you like. M & J have kind of fallen in the popular imagination these days, but I think much of their early work with heterosexual couples had validity. It is stuff that you can do on your own without a sex therapist, you do it as a couple, and it looks like a lot of fun, but you and your partner have to be patient. Let me research that and get back to you.
    But in the mean time here are a couple of things to try.
    Masturbate in his presence, not in the sense that you are putting on a show, but while he cuddles you and caresses your breasts, you manipulate your clitoris in the same fashion as when you do orgasm. Be patient and ask him to be patient. Do not worry about having an orgasm. That is avoid performance anxiety. The goal is to pleasure your self and enjoy it with his help, not have an orgasm. Remove the demand for the orgasm. Set a time period and do this with no expectations of orgasm.
    Another thing to try is to have him penetrate you using the scissors position. It is a very comfortable position for long term coitus. It also gives you both good access to your clitoris. Now he should stay in you but only thrst enough to maintain an erection. You will manipulate your clitoris. Every now and again he can help. The idea is to allow your self to orgasm (and lose contol) in his presence. Then you start letting him through the same methods take over. You can switch back and forth. I don't know if that will work or not. But in the spirit of sexual research it will be fun.

    The other thing that comes to mind is g-spot manipulation. Does the g-spot exist? I don't know, but enough women experience positive results to make the argument moot. There are plenty of instructions for g-spot massage on the web. Do note that many women get a sensation that they are going to urinate. I have read that you will not. I will not guarantee that though. My wife and I tried it once and she was sure she was going to pee and she made me stop. She would entertain no further g-spot explorations.
    I have a slight twist in the g-spot method. If birth control is not an issue, have your partner apply a good dab of his Cowper's fluid (precum) to the tip of his finger. Now it gets a bit tricky. With his free hand, he will separate your labia and expand your introitus so that the dab of fluid is applied to the g-spot, or at least the internal wall of your vagina. If it gets wiped off before making it to the internal wall, the effect will not happen. Cowper's is extremely viscous and slick, so it makes a dandy lubricant. Alas it always comes in small quantities so it won't last long. But here is what I found with my wife, the Cowper's caused her to immediately lubricate quite copiously. I believe that it is a chemical signal to the vagina that penetration is occurring and it is time to lubricate.

    I would love to publish that finding in a peer reviewed journal but 1) my peers are those retired guys you see sitting in your local McDonald's in the morning and 2) my sample size n=1 (my wife) is too small to be statistically significant. Alas my great discovery languors in obscurity.

    Do note if pregnancy is an issue, Cowper's should not be introduced to the vagina, it may contain sperm.

    Hope this helps.

     
  8. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    The M&J method I spoke of above is called Sensate Focus. I found a rather nice set of instructions for it:

    http://counselling-matters.org.uk/sites/counselling-matters/files/SensateFocus.pdf

    If you would like to get into a full blown reading project, here is a paper that discusses various methods of treating orgasmic dysfunction in women. Unfortunately it seems rather dated, and these methods are for women who have never experienced orgasm. That clearly is not your situation.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3411116/

    The other problem with the above article is that it is written for therapist not individuals.

    If you read the Sensate Focus instructions, you will note that it will require some patience and time. Even though you are orgasmic, I am tempted to say that should you try the sensate focus method, you should avoid short cuts...I don't think you can look at this like taking math courses...oh I know algebra, I'll just jump right into trigonometry. The idea of sensate focus is to take your body and mind off the immediate goal of having an orgasm, and teaching yourself and your partner to give and receive sensations and to enjoy them for the own right and the orgasms will follow. This is a couples therapy...you are already orgasmic on your own so I think you will need the cooperation, patience, and encouragement of your partner.

    Oh again remember what I said about changing spark plugs in lawn mowers. You get what you pay for, and free advice on the internet is always questionable. The other thing I would say is that you will need a positive attitude toward any therapy that you pursue. If you read the therapy and are convinced in your mind that this will never work...chances are it will never work. So before you embark on a lengthy program, do some research and convince yourself that the method will work, otherwise I believe that you will be wasting your time.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
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  9. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    Persephone, quick note because I must leave, but I did some more snooping about on sensate focus. I read several criticisms of the technique that said that the couples enjoyed the therapy, had a greater appreciation for each other and for sex, but alas the rate of successful orgasm in the woman did not increase.

    As with all things I imagine there is a spectrum of opinions that go from totally useless to best thing since canned beer. Your mileage may vary.
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  10. Persephone

    Persephone New Member

    Wow! If I am unable to achieve my sexual goals, it certainly won't be due to lack of good advice! Thanks for your research etc, Fascinated. I am about to read those articles now. We have tried versions of a couple of your suggestions, with varying success - last week, it was amazing! We worked together for me to orgasm first, then immediately went into oral (with another climax) and finished up with penetrative sex. Utterly satisfying; although the initial orgasm was still brought on by me, my SO was involved and assisting. We are curious about your Cowper's technique, though it may be difficult to achieve. We are not exactly young, so pregnancy is not an issue - I am 49, and in the middle of menopause, and my partner is a bit older than me. Luckily, I don't seem to have an issue with lubrication or libido.
    Anyway, I will post updates as to the success or otherwise of different things we try.
    Fascinated likes this.

     
  11. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    There is nothing particularly difficult about the dab of Cowper's other than making sure that it doesn't get wiped off his finger by your labia. You can assist by spreading your labia with both of your hands. Once he applies it to the inner wall, that's all there is to it. Some men do not have Cowper's fluid, at least in detectable amounts. Also Cowper's often only seems to make an appearance relatively early in the man's arousal.

    The other delectable thing to do with Cowper's is to dab it on a nipple and massage it in...ooohhh,la,la. Amazing stuff, fun to play with too, very stringy. I would be interested in hearing any observable results you may have with the Cowper's experiment. Maybe I can get my statistical sample up to two.

    Going by what you reported in the message above I would say not to trouble yourself with M&J's sensate focus. It starts out with non-genital touching and like I say the method has received some criticism for not actually improving the rates of orgasm although couples seem to love doing it and see improvements in intimacy and satisfaction from intercourse.

    Why not try working together while he gives you oral. I enjoy when my wife reaches down and helps out...it is very hot!

    If you are not using condoms, another thing I would try is for you to manipulate yourself after he comes in your vagina. There is some thought that semen is very beneficial to women. Another thing, if he doesn't mind, is to have him give you oral on your clitoris after he has come in you. If semen has some properties of love potion number 9, it may be just the trick to get you to tip.

    Scientific American Blog: An ode to the many evolved virtues of human semen By Jesse Bering | September 22, 2010

    Science of Love, Sex, and Babies, The “psych” in semen, Posted in news by jenapincott on March 25, 2009

    Persephone, I think if you and your SO work together, you can find ways that while perhaps he is not giving you an orgasm per se, you are both together and he will at least share in the process.

    Oh another thing you can try during coitus, the coital alignment technique.

    Mission: Pleasure Possible When some people hear “missionary,” they think of boring, awkward, fumbling sex. But missionary is perhaps the most common sex position for a reason— namely, it can be an easy sex position in which a woman can relax and focus on her pleasure and orgasm. Try these adaptations that may stimulate your vulva or vagina in more targeted ways: Tilt your hips upward during missionary, making your torso as flat as a table. If your partner’s penis or strap-on points or aims upward, this can aid in G-spot stimulation. Downward pointing or side-to-side play can also be fun. Squeeze your pelvic-floor muscles (the muscles that help draw your vagina in tighter) for more intense stimulation for yourself and your partner. You might also find it easier to place a pillow under your hips so that you can relax rather than holding your hips up with your own strength.

    Become a CAT lady. CAT stands for coital alignment technique, another modification of missionary. Have your male partner (or your female partner if she’s wearing a strap-on) position their shoulders past yours, closer to your ears or forehead. This should allow your partner’s pubic bone to more easily rub against your vulva. This placement combined with the motions— which are more about close grinding than in and out thrusting— has been shown to make for easier orgasms for women.​

    Herbenick, Debby; Schick, Vanessa (2011-11-16). Read My Lips: A Complete Guide to the Vagina and Vulva (Kindle Locations 1584-1594). Rowman & Littlefield Publishers. Kindle Edition.


    Here is what the Science Of Orgasm has to say about the Sensate Focus:

    Sensate focus exercises were developed by Masters and Johnson (1970) to reduce anxiety through the use of a series of body-touching ing exercises, moving from sensual-nonsexual (e.g., scalp and face massage) to increasingly sensual-sexual (e.g., genital massage). These exercises are still widely used today. However, according to Meston, Hull, et al. (2004), there are no reports that these exercises cises produce any substantial improvement in orgasmic response.​

    But to further put your situation in perspective this book

    ...given that orgasm is not always essential sential to sexual satisfaction, and that the inability to experience orgasm during intercourse is not abnormal, one needs to consider whether or not an orgasm difficulty needs a closer look. If not experiencing periencing an orgasm causes a woman distress, then it can be considered sidered a sexual problem. It is important for women to know that they are in charge of their own orgasm; they can have an orgasm, but no one else can give them an orgasm. Women are responsible for their own pleasure and satisfaction.

    Barry R. Komisaruk. The Science of Orgasm (Kindle Locations 707-717). Kindle Edition.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2015

     
  12. Persephone

    Persephone New Member

    Here is an update. We tried Orgasmic Meditation last week, having watched a few youtube clips in preparation. It was an interesting experience, enlightening in some respects though I am not sure if it was ultimately a great deal of help. OM is the practice where a partner strokes a woman's cliterus for 15 minutes in a peaceful and relaxing environment. Some people have claimed to have had amazing experiences through this, even on the first time. I'm afraid it was nothing like that for us, although it was certainly enjoyable. Far from having electrical sensations, my partner's hand became uncomfortable for a while. We were both agreed that the fifteen minutes, which sounded like a long time for a single activity, actually flew by. It was towards the end of the session that I started to feel a noticeable build up in arousal. One thing that did come out of the experience was the realisation that there are physiological reasons for the fact that orgasm takes me a long time and some (individual) exertion. At the beginning of the OM session, the stroker is supposed to describe the cliterus to the woman. My SO said that mine seemed small and not as prominent as it is in other women. He found it difficult keeping the hood back and the cliterus exposed for stroking (it was quite deep, he said - of course, it became more protruding with arousal, but still not so much). So now I know.
    We did have great sex following the session, with me already a bit ahead of the game, as it were!
    My quest for an orgasm not brought on by myself continues. At the moment I am sworn off masturbation, to see if that helps (SO's suggestion).

     
  13. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    Regarding the small clitoris issue. Do you have difficulty bringing yourself to orgasm with masturbation when you are alone? If you orgasm quite readily by yourself, but not so in the presence of your partner, then I don't think the size of your clitoris is an issue. If you have relative difficulty attaining orgasm in all conditions, then yes perhaps the size of clitoris and the depth of its location in the clitorial hood could be a factor.

    I don't believe there is anything you can do for the size of your clitoris short of testosterone therapy which I really think you would want to avoid. The Mayo Clinic says this: "Testosterone preparations are not approved by the Food and Drug Administration for use in women. So if testosterone is prescribed, it's for off-label use. Not that I am knowledgeable on this but I understand that testosterone is sometimes used for low libido in women but apparently without the blessing of the FDA. I have read that side affects are increased hair growth and clitoris enlargement. Web MD states that if you notice such an enlargement you should notify your doctor. So it is not a desirable side affect. Most likely your clitoris would shrink again if you stopped the therapy.

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...ert-answers/testosterone-therapy/faq-20057935

    http://www.webmd.com/women/testosterone-for-women

    Here is some information regarding methods of clitoris enlargement. I thoroughly would recommend to NOT do this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitoral_enlargement_methods


    There is also clitorial hood reduction surgery, but if you want my opinion flailing scalpel anywhere near your clitoris is madness. None the less, I found this:

    What is Clitoral Hood Reduction?
    The skin adjacent to the clitoris is known as the clitoral hood or prepuce. The appearance is affected by genetics, hormonal stimulation and external alterations secondary to childbirth. The added bulk of this loose tissue can detract from the appearance of the vulva. If there is significant clitoral hood tissue and a patient undergoes labiaplasty, this area can actually appear even more prominent and unsightly. Dr. Jacobson removes this excess skin using a meticulous technique that leaves no scaring. There is never any attempt to operate on the clitoris itself, nor does one want to remove all of the skin on top of the clitoris, which can result in long term irritation. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest there will be greater responsiveness if the clitoris is totally uncovered.

    http://www.cosmeticvaginasurgery.com/procedures/

    Emphasis of the last sentence is mine. I am equally against these surgeries. They are not covered by health insurance, there are no standards of success, and there are no watchdog agencies. They are extremely expensive.

    My own belief (which is not worth much-not possessing a clitoris myself and having access to only one) is that I doubt that your clitoris is significantly insensitive compare to the average when being stimulated directly. It could be so for coitus, the track record for clitorial stimulation during coitus is sketchy at best. But I don't believe that your situation would warrant chancy self medications or expensive surgery.

    I would suggest continuing with your Orgasmic Meditation program but also try a few other things.

    For the retraction of your clitorial hood, I would suggest having your partner trying to push it back with both his index fingers and then while holding back in the retracted position with his fingers, stimulate your clitoris with his tongue.

    My other suggestion would be to map your responses. Try g-spot massage, and the deeper A-spot stimulation, which you may have to attempt with a dildo or toy. I would avoid using a vibrator (except in the off position). If you do have an anterior fornix response you want to see if it can be stimulated by your partner's penis (which usually does not vibrate). You may find that you have sufficient vaginal innervation to more than make up for the reduced clitorial response. But the one thing I would emphasize is for both of you to enjoy this process. Do not allow yourself or your partner to become discouraged or frustrated. Avoid performance anxiety. Thanks for your update, and good luck...remember enjoy these explorations.
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  14. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    I just viewed this Orgasm Meditation video.



    A couple things surprise me. One, I am assuming a lover or a spouse and not a professional therapist or a casual friend. Why does he remain fully clothed and she leaves her top on? Full nudity to me would seem much more intimate. The rubber gloves thoroughly amazed me. Why would a lover or spouse wear rubber gloves? Aside from those two observations, this looks like a wonderful technique and certainly would be a lot of fun to try.

    The effects they describe are similar to those that I have heard ascribed to karezza. Very interesting.

     
  15. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    In snooping around in the light of day on Orgasmic Meditation, I ran into this wikipedia article:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OneTaste

    Alarms bells are going off in my head, but at this time I am trying to keep an open mind. I would say regarding this stuff, be careful, I see nothing wrong with the video that I posted above, other than the mystical claims may be a bit exaggerated. Use it for exploring and developing your orgasmic abilities but I would be hesitant to get involved in one of these groups sessions. To me sexuality works best with a loving couple in the privacy of your home. Keep your expectations realistic. Orgasm is a wonderful thing, and yes I would love to fly off Oz and see the sound of one hand clapping...but be careful when big price tags come out, I get a little suspicious.

     
  16. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    I am a very bookish type of guy so I found this at Amazon Slow Sex: The Art and Craft of the Female Orgasm. It is written by the founder and CEO of One Taste, Nicole Daedone. The book is available in hard back, paperback, Kindle, or Audible. If you buy the Kindle version you can get the Audible version for about half price, be sure to purchase the Kindle version first to get the discount on the Audible version.

    So I bought the Kindle version and I will report back on what I think. I also ran into this article:

    http://www.alternet.org/sex-amp-relationships/what-happened-when-i-went-orgasmic-meditation-class

    It is written by Jill Hamilton the author of the blog In Bed With A Married Woman and is quite interesting.

    Again from my own standpoint, I would be quite willing to do this with my wife in the privacy of our home. No way could I do one of the group deals or have a trainer. But that's me, one foot still in the 20th century...and not the 60s.

    I will confess, I am intrigued with this, but I
    also get real yancy with any sniff of cults or cult like practices. I firmly believe that sex and spirituality should be practiced by couples in love and individuals, not in group settings. Again thats me, I also like 57 Chevies.
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  17. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    So I haven't started to read the book yet but I have snooped around trying to ascertain just how culty OneTaste is. Typical of the internet you can find anything under the sun...its the best thing since canned beer...to its a wacky cult and run like hell. So in the end you are left with trying to decide on something using your common sense. Some of the negative commentary is no doubt from the sexual nature of the practice. A lot of the negative comments I read were older but then I found this jewel at Yelp:

    http://www.yelp.com/biz/onetaste-san-francisco-2

    OneTaste is a company that teaches genital stroking in a technique called Orgasmic Meditation. They have events called "Turn Ons" which are modeled after the Mark groups of the 60s by the sex commune Morehouse. (They were called Mark groups because the people who attended the events are 'marks' to be conned.) If you go to one of these events to 'learn' you will get the hard sell a few days later from their staff.

    No matter how eager these OneTaste people seem to be your friend, no matter how much they seem to have something you want, they are salespeople first and will drop you like a hot potato if you don't buy expensive workshops and coaching sessions from them. I was involved with this group for over a year, took 2 classes and even some private coaching sessions from them. And this was the #1 complaint from many people. Many leave. Bad for business.

    OneTaste has a sex class for about $6000 and their coaching program costs in the $15,000 range. The basic OM class is about $195 at last I heard. You take this one-day class, the "How to OM" class, to learn their technique of female clitoral stroking. It's like learning a new form of sex. This part is actually cool. Orgasms, what's not to like?

    The uncool part is that the staff and coaches are focused on liberating you from your money and protecting their status in the organization, and if you criticize them you will be kicked out. This is getting into the culty part. OneTaste promises women better orgasms, but getting past all the sales, emotional manipulation and starry-eyed fellow culties is a big turn off. It's a good place for older, or shy men, to pick up on women who would not normally consider becoming sexually involved with them. The gender balance can be a little skewed older, white male.

    Bottom line: Look elsewhere to expand your sexual education. Don't put your faith in sex gurus or their acolytes. Their main goal is to make money teaching sexual techniques with a veneer of psuedo spirituality. Trust yourself. Remember that the teachers are salespeople first and foremost, not your friends. Also remember that as soon as you quit paying for expensive classes, or quit recruiting new customers for them, you will be of no interest to them.

    There are other groups all around the Bay Area doing the same thing, with more care and honesty. Find them. Julie S. 5-29-15
    So here is what I think, and remember opinions are like anuses, everyone has one and sometimes they stink. Cult is probably too strong of a word. It strikes me more of a pyramid scheme like sales organization. Why all the pressure and huge prices? I have read several different places that you can schedule a personal OM class with Nicole for $36 grand. Nicole? Who the hell is Nicole? Nicole Daedone CEO and Founder. Wow I can get Nicole Daedone to flick my clit for only $36,000! I don't think that Nicole does any clit flicking or for you perspective strokers out there that you will get to flick hers for a mere $36 grand although I don't know that for a fact. I am sure you could negotiate a price. There is definitely a cult of celebrity in that price tag.

    So here is the thing, you can buy a perfectly good Lelo vibrator for less than 200 or you can buy the gold plated Inez for $15000. Will the Inez do a better job than one of the cheapies? I doubt it but you will have the pleasure of knowing that only the purest gold is entertaining your lady bits and you get a really cool brooch with Lelo written on it (the gentleman's gold plated butt plug gets cuff links). I am sure that you can buy a trove of vibrators for less the $50 that will get the job done. But as a reward for your goals in life ahhh there is that beauty the gold plated Inez for $15,000.

    https://www.lelo.com/inez

    Even I, one of the cheapest bastards on the face of the Earth, have to admit that looking at the very high quality photos of the Inez at Lelo's website makes my inner vagina (I am a man, alas) tingle with the thought of slowly plunging the Inez within me, my internal walls adhering to the liquidy smooth surface of 24 K gold and slowly pulling away. Damn! Women get to have all the fun. Oh wait I forget about childbirth, never mind. Further along this line my $35 Timex Ironman probably does not keep quite as good time as a Patek Philippe 5004T but with the $3,984,965 difference in price, I can probably look at my cell phone for the exact time and not worry about thieves. There is something to be said for the lack of muggings with a Timex...and nobody says "that's a fake."

    The point of this all being: watch the video, do the sessions, and enjoy. If after three weeks, you have still not had an electric blue spark fly from your clitoris to your third eye, well suck it up. Don't make the appointment for a $195 class which will be an advertisement for the $6000 class....and what you will find is that your difficulties in obtaining Nirvana is your fault (never the procedure) and can only be solved by signing up for yet a pricier class. I mean really, what do you do if after the $36 grand session with Nicole, that damned blue spark only makes it to your navel.

    I think the procedure is really cool (with your lover or spouse--not so cool with a stranger). It looks like a lot of fun and yes, I think it may help you to learn to orgasm with your SO. I think it could be a great stress reliever too. I also believe that some people will obtain the spiritual results. But I also think that for most people, you can do this at home for free. Call me old fashioned but my wife and I are not about to do this in a group session or with a trainer. And there sure as hell are not going to be any strangers involved for either one of us.


    Last edited: Jul 2, 2015
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  18. Redtulip

    Redtulip Member

    H Persephone,
    I am a women who also has a very difficult time reaching a clitoral orgasm unless I personally take on the task. But when we do have sex I almost always achieve a g-spot orgasm and about 50% of the time have a vaginal orgasm. Conversely I can't masturbate to a g-spot orgasm or a vaginal orgasm. I just am content to take care of business if I feel like a clitoral orgasm and am plenty content to have either one or the other or both when we have sex. If I do on the odd occasion want to have a clitoral orgasm when we have sex we spoon and I use my vibrator on my clit as he fucks me from behind. It is great when I can get there but it takes quite a bit of concentration because I find the clitoral orgasm takes quite a bit of mental foreplay to achieve. I have to really get in the zone and concentrate on whatever fantasy is doing it for me at the time and I must say when I am trying to get there it seems the dirtier and kinkier the better. That is why it is easier when I am on my own I can really get into my head. I also find it hard to achieve just with my fingers directly on my clit. I have to have either a vibrator or some item to use on it otherwise my brain seems to get muddles between the sensations on my fingers and on my clit. The other types of orgasms are very different in that the only thing my brain is taking in is the pleasure and am incapable of having any coherent thought.
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  19. MatthewM

    MatthewM Member

    Wow, my GF could help you rather profoundly. She's pretty much an expert in the ways women cum. :)
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  20. Fascinated

    Fascinated Member

    This is absolutely fascinating. Can you tell us how the different orgasms feel? Specifically how does a vaginal orgasm differ from a g-spot. I assume the g-spot is centered on the g-spot and urethral sponge. Where does the vaginal center, is it deep indicating anterior fornix? Do you suspect cervical involvement? Can you choose which to have? Do certain positions favor one or the other? Did you say that sometime you have both? At the same? Have you ever had all three at the same time? Did your bedroom implode? (Yes I am being a wise ass on that one but only on that question). This is great. I love discussing orgasms and geography!

    What is surprising to me is that most women can do clitorial orgasms much easier that vaginal or g spot. Yet you seem to experience the opposite condition. The other facet I find absolutely fascinating is the muddling of your finger tips and clitoris. It would seem that a partner should be able to bring you to a clitorial orgasm easier especially through cunnilingus. This is extremely interesting.

    When you say that you can not induce a g-spot or vaginal orgasm through masturbation, have you ever attempted it with a toy specifically designed for g-spot stimulation?

    I have a quote here from The Science of Orgasm that describes the various nerve paths of pelvic innervation. You may find it interesting (well then again it is kind of dry which is probably why I find it interesting)

    Lloyd contends that women’s orgasm that results from stimulation of the clitoris is a “by-product” of men’s penis stimulation–induced orgasm. She points out, correctly, that the clitoris receives sensation from the pudendal nerve, the same nerve that provides penile sensation, and that this nerve conveys orgasm-producing stimulation from the clitoris in women and the penis in men. However, Lloyd ignores the extensive literature that demonstrates the existence of three additional pairs of nerves in women that convey sensation to the brain from the vagina, cervix, and uterus. There is good evidence that activation of these nerves by physical stimulation of these uniquely female organs can generate orgasm. As described above, these three pairs of nerves are the pelvic (sensory primarily from the vagina and cervix), hypogastric (sensory primarily from the cervix and uterus), and vagus (sensory primarily from the region of the cervix and uterus). Several studies provide evidence that direct mechanical stimulation of the vagina or cervix in the absence of direct clitoral stimulation can generate orgasms in women (Komisaruk & Whipple, 1994; Whipple, Gerdes & Komisaruk, 1996; Komisaruk, Gerdes & Whipple, 1997; Komisaruk, Whipple, Crawford, et al., 2004). Furthermore, women describe the quality of orgasms resulting from vaginal stimulation—“deep, heaving,” for example—as feeling different from orgasms induced by only clitoral stimulation (J. Singer & I. Singer, 1972; Ladas, Whipple & Perry, 1982, 2005).

    Thus, women have a unique and richly developed pattern of sensation that can be stimulated physically by penile intromission during sexual intercourse. (Indeed, the commercial market for dildos is testimony to the pleasure-producing nature of vaginal sensation.) Women’s orgasms, we argue, are generated by their own unique organs and neural systems; they are far more than just a by-product or side effect of men’s orgasms.​

    Komisaruk, Barry R; Beyer-Flores, Carlos; Whipple, Beverly (2008-01-04). The Science of Orgasm (Kindle Locations 240-253). Johns Hopkins University Press. Kindle Edition.

    Emphasis mine. The interesting aspect of this is that these nerve follow different paths. The clitoris through the pudendal nerve enters the spinal column in the lower sacral region at vertebrae S2, 3, and 4. The vagina and part of the cervix through the pelvic nerves use S1 and some of the lumbars (I think, had a bit of trouble nailing that one down). The other cervix and uterus nerve through the hypogastric use T10 to L2. The cervix and uterus nerve path via vagus nerve which is a cranial nerve does not enter the spinal column.

    Naomi Wolf had a noticeable change in her orgasms but in the opposite direction. Her clitorial were the same but the deep vaginal disappeared. It turns out she had a misalignment of her lower spine that affected the vaginal innervation but not the clitorial. She had corrective surgery and an internal brace installed to maintain the vertebrae alignment. Her orgasms returned to normal. She describes this in her book Vagina, A Cultural History. The point of all this is that perhaps you have had an injury to you lower spine that is contributing to your situation.

    One of the reasons that I find this so fascinating was the misconceptions that the varieties of orgasm have provided. Freud had that bullshit about mature women experienced vaginal orgasm and immature girls experiencing only clitorial. Then in the 1970s the popular belief was that all orgasms were clitorial and some of the ladies declared us laddies unnecessary...something about a fish needing a bicycle. My wife declared that believe bullshit. She had both surface and light clitorial orgasms and she also had deep vaginal orgasms. She much preferred the latter and would seldom let me take her to orgasm with cunnilingus. She desired the deep vaginal which only happened with coitus.

    Your comment on coherent thought is interesting. Some fMRI research has found major portions of the brain blinking out during orgasm, somewhat of a loss of consciousness. There is an interesting art/experiment on the web called Hysterical Literature. What we the viewers see is simply a fully clothed woman sitting at a table reading a passage out of book. What you don't see is another woman under the table working out on the reader's vulva with a Hitachi Magic Wand. The reader's job is to simply keep reading for as long as she can. This provides a very interesting non-porn presentation of female orgasm.

    Redtulip, if I was a rich software mogul instead of a poor retired guy, I would pay you and your SO big bucks to bonk in a fMRI machine and let us see what is going on in that sex organ in your skull. Alas, maybe next life time. I would really appreciate any further description you could provide. I find female orgasm to be extremely interesting. Much superior to those paltry few puts and a sigh that I have.
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