Anyone try Centchroman?

Discussion in 'Centchroman' started by Diana, Jan 28, 2010.


 

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  1. Diana

    Diana Administrator

    This is the original Centchroman thread from this board which somehow got lost/deleted/corrupted. We have recovered as much as we could and it follows below.

    <LA_FadeAway>
    posted September 20, 2005 12:56 AM
    I've been reading about Centchroman on other sites and it
    sounds promising. For those who haven't heard of it, it's a
    non-hormonal BCP developed, tested, and used in India. It's
    not approved by the FDA for sale in the U.S. yet. It
    supposedly does not have any of the negative side effects of
    hormonal pills. Has anyone on here had any experience with it
    good or bad??? I'm rather intrigued by this!

    bimster71
    posted September 21, 2005 03:19 PM
    I looked this up and it looks really good, that makes me
    nervous But who knows, maybe they finally got it right.

    <aimoore>
    posted September 22, 2005 10:21 AM
    The only problem that I found while doing some research on
    this is that it does not prevent you from ovulating like the
    pill does. This means that the egg will become fertilized and
    then be "aborted" because it is unable to attach to the
    uterus. I have a feeling that the anti-abortion people would
    have a field day with that. Saying that women are killing
    their babies! Also for me to feel comfortable using it they
    would have to increase the effectiveness to closer to what the
    pill is.

    <la_fadeaway>
    posted September 22, 2005 06:36 PM
    Don't we currently have forms of BC in the U.S. that just
    prevent the fertelized egg from implanting? If that's the
    case, it seems like they could get it approved. But, you're
    right that the pro-life group would try to prevent it.
    I think I'd be willing to give it a try, but maybe with a back
    up spermicide or something just to be safe!

    Seashelles
    posted September 26, 2005 02:19 AM
    Wow, I am very excited about this pill... It would seem to
    solve so many of the problems we all experience on combined
    hormonal pills. However how do we go about making it available
    in Australia? I'd be willing to start a petition, would make
    my quality of life a lot better!

    Seashelles
    posted September 27, 2005 03:37 AM
    Hi guys, just did a bit of research on this and found this
    site and discussion forum.
    http://web.archive.org/web/20051231025714/http://www.communities.ninemsn.com.au/Centchromanclub
    Lots of good info. I'm from Australia and really want to find
    a non-hormonal form of bc, however as has been said in other
    discussions on this forum, barrier methods are somewhat
    restrictive to the sexual experience. I'm going to ask my doctor about getting Centchroman imported. Hope this helps a bit, let me know if anyone finds out more.

    SupaKat
    posted October 04, 2005 02:50 PM
    Wow...this sounds...wonderful...
    Why is it that the good stuff is never available in America?
    I have ordered prescription drugs from other countries before,
    over the internet. I bet we can find somewhere to order this,
    if we can only find a doctor who would be willing to monitor
    our use of it.

    Seashelles
    posted October 05, 2005 02:54 AM
    I'm going to ask the doctor about it next week, and see if
    anything can be done about this. It seems ridiculous to not
    have it available in other countries where women obviously
    suffer the side effects of using the combined bc. To be
    honest, I have a conspiracy theory: if they sell the combined
    oral bc pill to women in western countries, and these women
    suffer from side effects such as anxiety and depression,
    pharmaceutical companies make more money as these women can
    afford to buy anti-depressants etc...to counter the effects of
    the bc pill. Henceforth, the pharm companies make even
    more!!!! A bit paranoid perhaps, but I'm going to get on my own
    bandwagon and try my hardest to get this drug. It would make
    my life that much better, to have a non-hormonal bc, that
    wasn't a barrier method......
    Good luck to all finding out more!

    Cami
    posted October 05, 2005 05:44 PM
    seashells
    totally not paranoid (i think you are bang on)...and is a
    theory many including my fourth year sociology proff have!!!!
    I think a lot of it has to do with it being a generic company
    that created it (by generic i mean not physer,
    glaxcosmithkline etc) Think of it this way it cost's a person
    living with aids in sub-saharn africa nearly $500/day to get
    the drugs they need...even though India and other developing
    nations have created generic versions of the same drug for
    less than half the price...BUT they will never reach people
    suffering in sub-saharn africa. Why? The World Trade
    Organization will sue the pants of off them on behalf of the
    big pharma corp's for lost profits! SUCH BULLSHIT!!!! Seriusly
    pharma co's are the source of so much of this world's
    ills-thats part of why i went off the pill in the first place,
    i didnt want to give them my money! So since it is a generic
    co. i imagine it will be years before it (if ever) reaches
    here....the Centchroman Club site has a message board based in
    India. I heard from one woman that she got someone on there to
    buy them for her and mail her a 6 month supply...worth looking
    into. Good luck to you and everyone else-and if anyone gets any more
    info please keep usposted!

    Seashelles
    posted October 05, 2005 06:57 PM
    I'll keep youposted. If anyone's travelling to India anytime
    soon.....I wonder if there would be a market for global
    distribution of the product?!!

    Seashelles
    posted October 05, 2005 07:52 PM
    Hi gals,
    Just found another interesting chat forum -
    http://web.archive.org/web/20051231025714/http://www.womenshealthmatters.ca/
    There's a bit of talk there re: centchroman, but no
    information we haven't already found out here. There's one
    user however, who reports having found a way to order the
    stuff and have it imported (she's based in U.S like most of
    you!). Cami, quick totally off-topic question here. How do you become
    a moderator? And how long am I a 'junior member' for? I have
    no idea how these chat forums work!
    Hope everyone's going well. I stopped using bcps a little over
    a month ago. First few weeks were really up and down but the
    overall change I've noticed is really starting to excite me. I
    don't cry everyday, don't need to snap at my poor bf when he
    doesn't do exactly what I wanted. It's like I can hope and
    feel and dream again, and I didn't even realise how much of
    myself I'd lost until now.
    I don't want to go back at all, and condoms (as you said Cami)
    aren't as bad as they're made out to be. I have noticed when
    you use them you tend to spend more time doing 'other things'
    which makes it lots more fun! But this Centchroman pill sounds
    like an answer we would all love to find.
    Good luck, peace and happiness to you all.

    SupaKat
    posted October 07, 2005 04:13 PM
    Received this emaiil regarding Centchroman:
    Ms. Katherine Alysse
    USA
    Dear Ms. Alysse,
    This is with reference to your email addressed to our Director
    Dr. CM Gupta regarding centchroman. Centchroman is a
    nonsteroidal once a week oral contraceptive marketed in India
    as 'Saheli' by M/s. Hindustan Latex Ltd. It has also been
    recently marketed as 'Sevista' by Torrent Pharmaceuticals Ltd.
    for the management of dysfunctional uterine bleeding. I am
    giving below the addresses of both these companies, whom you
    may like to contact. Also attached herewith are a review on
    this compound published in 2001 and a recent paper showing its
    antiosteoporosis activity, which you may find of interest.
    Please let me know if you need any further information in this
    connection.
    Hindustan Latex Ltd.
    Mr. M Ayyappan
    Managing Director
    Latex Bhawan
    Poojapura
    Thiruvananthapuram-695 012
    India
    Tel.: 091-417-2341149, 2340573, 2341219
    Fax: 091-417-2340739
    http://web.archive.org/web/20051231025714/http://www.hindlatex.com/
    Other addresses:
    Business Manager (CBD)
    Hindustan Latex Ltd.
    64, Sankaran Avenue
    Velachery Road,
    Chennai 600 042
    India
    Tel. : 091-44 22453478, 22456641
    Fax : 091-44 22453478, 22456641
    e-mail : bmcbu@yahoo.co.in , hllcmo@eth.net
    Manager, Exports
    Hindustan Latex Ltd.
    Corporate Head Office,
    Latex Bhavan, Poojappura,
    Thiruvananthapuram 695012
    India
    Tel.: 091-471 2354949
    Fax: 091-471 2355125, 2356739
    e-mail: exports@hindlatex.com
    Torrent Pharmaceuticals Ltd.
    Torrent House
    Near Dinesh Hall
    Off Ashram Rd.
    Ahmedabad 380 009
    India
    Tel.: 091 79 658 5090
    http://web.archive.org/web/20051231025714/http://www.torrent-india.com/
    Please acknowledge receipt of this email and the attachments.
    With best wishes,
    Yours sincerely,
    Man Mohan Singh
    Head, Endocrinology Division
    Central Drug Research Institute
    Lucknow, India
    7 October 2005

    <LA_FadeAway>
    posted October 10, 2005 01:11 AM
    Very interesting. I'm glad to see that others are as excited
    about this drug as I am. I just wish I could get it "legaly"
    here under doctor's supervision!

    Seashelles
    posted October 13, 2005 01:17 AM
    Hi ladies,
    Just thought you may like to know, there's an online pharmacy
    called All Day Chemist which actually sells Saheli (one of the
    names of Centchroman).
    It's not listed on their list of drugs, but if you send an
    email inquiry, they'll tell you they have it and they can send
    it to you.
    If anyone wants anymore information let me know - I think this
    sounds like something that may change many women's lives.
    Good luck
    Shelle

    Seashelles
    posted October 19, 2005 06:53 PM
    Hi everyone,
    I have recently ordered Saheli over the internet - I'm not yet
    sure whether I'm convinced by it, however have been talking
    with a girl in America who I discovered in a different womens
    health forum, who has been using it for a year (with no other
    form of bc) and found it wonderful.
    If anyone has anymore questions about this, or is interested
    in maybe trying to raise a bit more awareness, please let me
    know.
    Good luck to all!
    Seashelles

    GreenTea
    posted November 04, 2005 11:09 PM
    Hi, everyone, especially Seashelles (wave; it's me!) I'm the
    American centchroman user Seashelles mentioned (she's the one
    who told me about THIS site). It's true, I've been using it as
    my only contraceptive for a year. It's worked for me, and no
    side effects except an altered menstrual cycle and some breast
    tenderness in the beginning. I'd tried Ortho Tricyclen before
    and had an extremely severe reaction--going by the posts on
    this board, it looks like I'm in good company!
    I agree, awareness needs to be raised. Centchroman is too good
    not to be sold everywhere.
    If anyone has questions, I'll be glad to share what I know.

    GreenTea
    posted November 04, 2005 11:46 PM
    quote:
    Originallyposted by <la_fadeaway>:
    Don't we currently have forms of BC in the U.S. that just
    prevent the fertelized egg from implanting? If that's the
    case, it seems like they could get it approved. But, you're
    right that the pro-life group would try to prevent it.
    Yes. It's called an IUD. And the morning after pill works that
    way at least some of the time, which is why they came up with
    a B.S. excuse not to approve it for OTC sales.

    LA_FadeAway
    posted November 05, 2005 01:39 AM
    Yep, that's what I thought. It's total BS.

    LA_FadeAway
    posted November 05, 2005 01:40 AM
    Seashelles, please report back if you give it a try!!!

    Seashelles
    posted November 07, 2005 07:57 PM
    quote:
    Originallyposted by LA_FadeAway:
    Seashelles, please report back if you give it a try!!!
    Hi all (wave to Greentea!)
    Well I've been using Centchroman (or Saheli) for 3 weeks. I
    have been using it in combo with barrier methods, except for
    one time when I was extremely naughty and relied on withdrawal
    method! I had some issues when I first started taking it,
    namely that I was not sure when my period was coming, I
    thought it was really late so started Saheli before I'd got it
    for the month. (My cycles have been random since stopping
    bcps)
    I got my period a few days after taking Saheli, and I will
    only be honest, it was quite distressing when I first got it -
    much more pain and heavier than normal for me. Lasted around 6
    days, then stopped abrubtly (normally sort of fades away at
    the end).
    Green tea said her first period on Centchroman was wierd too -
    and trusting her that they do get lighter after that. I
    haven't had any noticeable mood swings from it, only few minor
    tearies that I have put down to still experiencing withdrawal
    from hormonal bcp.
    Nothing like the monotonous moods and depression and ANGER
    that I felt whilst on bcps (I was on Levlen). Still will be
    interested to see when I get my next period and how it is, I'm
    judging from other people's experiences though, that they get
    lighter as you go on using Centchroman.
    It hasn't been easy starting to take this drug, I would never
    have had the courage to do it without Greentea's support
    because no one in Australia has even heard of it. I told my
    mother I'd heard of it, and she basically told me I'd be
    insane to use it. However using bcps' DID send me insane, and
    for me, using condoms does detract from the intimacy I feel
    with my bf. I'll probably still use them for a while yet,
    until I've been on Centchroman for a couple of months. The
    thing that annoys me the most, is that I believe this drug
    could solve so many problems for so many women but few people
    are willing to make it publicly known or available.
    If people read the studies done on it, it's quite clear that
    this IS a reliable and safe drug. It's been used to COMBAT
    breast cancer, and is not something that interferes with
    bodily cycles. I have actually noticed my own ovulation this
    month, which is amazing and exhilarating to feel because it's
    like my body is back to itself again, instead of feeling
    permanently pregant.
    Well I've been rambling for too long - but ANYONE who wants to
    know more about it please let us know. Just because 'western'
    medicine doesn't condone something, doesn't mean it's wrong or
    unsafe, it just doesn't suit the profit-motivated agenda of
    western pharmaceutical companies who stand to make more money
    selling women bcp's AND anti-depressants, instead of one
    simple drug that is cheap and effective.

    GreenTea
    posted November 07, 2005 09:30 PM
    Seashelles, I'm glad you got on it okay, and touched... I
    never knew my support meant THAT much.
    To share my experience, my first Saheli period was also
    extremely heavy. And I was not withdrawing from hormonal birth
    control; it was over three years since I'd taken it. It was
    also much more painful than usual, but I chalked that up to
    being at a higher elevation--I had gone to a 6,000 foot
    elevation in the Cascades (northern California) two and a half
    weeks earlier, after being at sea level for over a year, and
    was there for almost two months. I knew from past experience
    that my first period at a higher elevation than I was used to
    would likely be painful--I'd moved from sea level to high
    elevations twice since I was 18, and each time the first time
    I got my period there really took it out of me. My first
    Saheli period also ended abruptly, but lasted only four
    days--my normal average is seven.
    And it's true, every period I've had since then has been
    lighter, in fact, slightly lighter than normal, but with the
    usual light-heavy-tapering off pattern. And they've all lasted
    four to five days.
    My previous pill experience lasted only ten days, because that
    was all I could take (okay, more than I could take, but it
    took me that long to decide to stop). My period never stopped,
    I was so depressed I literally could not do anything, and I
    could feel every last joint in my body, every tooth socket in
    my jaw, because they ached so much. But it's been smooth
    sailing with centchroman. No aches, no effect on my mood or
    libido, and my periods have gotten a little farther apart and
    somewhat less regular, but no harm done. Centchroman really
    does allow for sex any time you feel like it (unlike other
    pills that defeat the purpose by destroying sex drive!). It's
    MUCH safer than hormonal pills.
    If anyone else thinks it might be a solution, I hope you'll be
    brave enough to try it. It saved my sex life, and probably
    saved my relationship (between us, my long-term boyfriend and
    I had trouble with every method available).

    SusanT
    posted November 09, 2005 07:43 AM
    Ok, now I'm intrigued too! Thanks to both GreenTea and
    Seashelles for their replies to my "Which Pill Next" thread.
    GreenTea, you didn't mention this option! Tell me again how
    you are getting this BCP in the states?
    I'm thinking that my plan of attack (literally, at times,
    considering the monster I can morph into...) is to meet with
    the doctor as planned, and try a triphasic pill. Not sure
    which one yet. But, since OrthoNovum777 was OK (as I recall)
    when I was younger, and my friend had no trouble with
    TriPhasil, a triphasic seems worth a shot. ONE shot. I'd still
    like info about getting this pill. Self-medication with a BCP
    of questionable U.S. legality makes me a little nervous, but I
    don't really have much faith in our Pharm market, and I know
    lots of smart people from India! :) So, I'd consider it in a
    heartbeat.
    I'm planning a wedding, and in the process of moving (OK, only
    relocating 35 miles, but selling a house is stressful!), so I
    don't want to add the stress of some of the initial effects of
    this pill just yet (nor do I want to go sans Pill just yet).
    However, if my next pill choice doesn't work wonders (which I
    doubt it will)... and/or after I get through the wedding and
    we are a little more prepared for the possibility of a
    pregnancy that comes earlier than expected, then I will either
    try to get this new pill, or go without pills.
    I'm SO glad I found this forum. Just having it to turn to
    helps me cope with my raging PMS!

    GreenTea
    posted November 09, 2005 12:02 PM
    I didn't mention this option because you said you didn't want
    to go through a major contraceptive change at this point.
    Obviously, I underestimated. Many, many apologies!
    Two links for you:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060211171257/http://groups.msn.com/Centchromanclub
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060211171257/http://www.alldaychemist.com/index.php
    The centchroman club is where I first got information about
    this pill, and another member helped me get my first supply
    (you won't see "GreenTea," though; my screen name there is
    vairdelys). I ordered my next supply (the first one ran out
    last July) from alldaychemist.com. They're an Indian pharmacy,
    quite reputable (if you want to check their reputation for
    yourself, or any online pharmacy for that matter, try this
    site:
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060211171257/http://www.overseaspharmacy.com/phpBB/
    ), and sell centchroman. However, they hide it. It won't
    appear on their list of drugs. Like Seashelles says (she
    bought from them, too), you have to query them.
    Traffic is sporadic on the centchroman club board, but, if you
    join and post, people do reply eventually, and they're very
    helpful. Most of them are in India or are Indian expats, the
    webmaster is a doctor, and some of the other members are
    medical professionals, too. Certainly a place where people
    will know what they're talking about, as much as anyone does
    with this pill.

    GreenTea
    posted November 09, 2005 12:18 PM
    A P.S. from my other post: the initial effects of centchroman
    consist of irregular menstrual cycles and, in my case, breast
    tenderness. Nothing that would play havoc with your ability to
    cope with major changes or stressful situations (unless you'd
    find the irregular cycles stressful). Definitely consider it,
    if nothing else.

    SusanT
    posted November 09, 2005 01:06 PM
    Thanks so much for this info... I'm surprised there isn't way
    more chatter on this forum about this option - given how
    clearly upset many ladies are with their traditional BCPs.
    I guess the "havoc" I'd want to avoid for the next 6 months or
    so is the irregular cycle, and any pregnancy scares at all.
    While this pill appears to be very efficient, I'm not sure I
    want to pull off the old reliable method (in terms of
    pregnancy prevention) just yet. A triphasic pill gets one shot
    from me, while I continue to look into this more, explore
    options for getting my hands on it, etc.
    Thanks for the links!

    GreenTea
    posted November 09, 2005 02:13 PM
    You're welcome. That's what this thread is for, starting the
    chatter!

    SusanT
    posted November 12, 2005 03:39 PM
    Quick Update on ordering Centchroman... When I last checked,
    the AllDayChemist.com website now DOES list Centchroman in
    their drug dropdown list - no need to email them to inquire
    (maybe they've been getting lots of those lately...hopefully
    it stays that way this time!). I initiated an order to see how
    much it would be. Wow, affordable! Almost all of the cost is
    in the S&H. The Centchroman Club website that GreenTea
    mentions above doesn't have daily traffic, like this site, but
    it is active and has lots of good info on the message board
    already. I plan to begin seeking advice there, once my
    membership goes through. Good luck to anyone else
    contemplating this route!...

    Seashelles
    posted November 12, 2005 10:08 PM
    Very interesting about AllDayChemist - I think perhaps the
    demand must be increasing then. Good news!!!
    SusanT - are you planning to commence using Centchroman? Or
    are you going to try another bcp first? When I spoke to my
    doctor about the problems I had with bcp's the only advice I
    was given was to try another sort. I was also told triphasics
    were the best (or least troublesome) but chose not to get the
    prescription made up for me.
    Hope it all goes well for you and remember to keep chatting if
    you need any help! Can't believe how lucky we all are to have
    found this forum to help eachother with these issues.

    Kit
    posted November 13, 2005 02:36 AM
    Hi guys,
    I just have to say that while I'm all for a new contraceptive
    solution for women, it seems a little scary to be jumping in
    and trying something new and seemingly untested. I'm not aware
    of all of the research on this drug but would be keen to know
    more.
    I guess I just think, especially after all we have gone
    through with regular BCPs that it might be an idea to maintain
    a little caution about these things.
    I realise that this drug isn't going to effect your hormones
    in the horrible ways that regular BCPs do... but what about
    it's long term effects? Will it effect your future potential
    to get pregnant? While it helps prevent breast cancer is it
    possible that it could cause other types of cancer? etc etc
    etc
    I know that regular BCPs are supposed to help prevent cervical
    cancer but at the same time they have been linked to breast
    cancer... so to say a drug helps prevent one type of cancer
    doesn't always mean it couldn't cause other problems.
    I'm not at all trying to rain on your parade and I really do
    wish you all the luck in the world with this new pill. It's
    just that after my own horrible experiences with BCPs if
    there's one thing I've learnt it's to question any medicines
    that I might put into my body. We don't ever really know
    exactly what we are doing to our bodies and that seems pretty
    scary to me. Personally I'm going to take the safe option of
    staying away from all of them!
    That said, I am still interested to know about how this drug
    goes for you guys. I really do hope that it is the wonder pill
    women are hoping for! ^_^

    SusanT
    posted November 13, 2005 11:18 AM
    In response to Kit... It sounds like you have a very
    understandable aversion to any type of medication, and that
    makes more sense even than this! To others who might simply be
    wary of its non-status in the U.S... Check out some of the
    info online. Johns Hopkins University deems it to be safe and
    promising -
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060211.../english/1fp/1advances/old/1centch/ceorvw.htm
    It's been tested in various ways in India since the 1970's.
    Keep in mind how the FDA works. From their site: "FDA reviews
    the results of laboratory, animal and human clinical testing
    done by companies to determine if the product they want to put
    on the market is safe and effective. FDA does not develop or
    test products itself." The potential for profit initiates the
    approval process, not the potential for help to patients. In
    other words, they won't randomly start the approval process
    for Centchroman until some company in the U.S. gets the
    license and wishes to bring it to market. Given how
    inexpensive it is in India, the profit potential (compared to
    traditional BCP and anti-depressants) suggests it won't be a
    high priority for American companies to pursue. Currently, it
    is licensed from its Indian government-sponsored developer
    (http://www.cdriindia.org) to two companies in India. India
    may be very different from the U.S., but it is no backwards,
    third-world place.
    In response to SeaShelles... My plan is to try a switch to a
    triphasic (I have doc appt next week). I don't recall as many
    problems on the triphasic I first took, but that was so long
    ago. Who knows. I want to get a differen Rx in my hand, so I
    have an option other than Alesse. However... I AM planning to
    start with Centchroman at some point. I want to learn a little
    more... Would it be better to go off hormonal BCP a couple
    months to let my body "remember" how to be normal, then start
    Centchroman... or just start right in with it at the end of a
    BCP pack? I'm also inclined to wait a few months because the
    pregnancy scare that the delayed period might cause is a bit
    much for me to juggle in the months leading up to my wedding
    (which is July 1)! I KNOW that centchroman is an effective
    method, but I just need the predictable "you're not pregnant"
    reminder a little while longer. :) That's why I think my plan
    will be to start a different pill, for at least a few months,
    then make a well-planned transition to centchroman.
    I'm excited about it, and the wedding is really the only thing
    stopping me from switching right now. It appears that,
    compared to hormonal BCP, it does have a slightly higher (but
    still very low) pregnancy risk, but I can totally live with
    that once we are married.

    GreenTea
    posted November 30, 2005 12:50 PM
    I couldn't help but noticing: side effects like acne, tender
    breasts....
    I had tender breasts the first two or three months I was on
    centchroman. Like menstrual breast tenderness, only I had it
    all month long. I still get it at odd times of the month on
    occasion, and I've been on Saheli for fourteen months now.
    Besides the change in my menstrual cycles, it was the only
    side effect as far as I can tell.
    Gyne nirmala, do you have any idea why I'd experience that?

    SupaKat
    posted December 02, 2005 02:42 PM
    http://web.archive.org/web/20060104192045/http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/5/503
    This is a very detailed article about levormeloxifene.
    I'm not sure how to read it all, but it confirms that
    levormeloxifene is:
    "the l-enantiomer of ormeloxifene"
    Also interesting:
    "However, the development of this compound has recently been
    stopped due to a number of adverse events being reported
    during phase III clinical trials, but new indications are
    currently being pursued as preclinical testing is near
    completion. It is anticipated that data generated within drug
    metabolism may contribute to the overall evaluation of new
    indications."
    Sounds to me like the problems in the clinical trials do not
    necessarily mean this compound will not be studied further.

    SusanT
    posted December 02, 2005 09:58 PM
    I hope I'm keeping all this information straight in my head!
    We have learned from discussions here that the enantiomers of
    a compound may be related and affect the body similarly, but
    their specific effects and even safety can be different,
    right? So, it would appear we shouldn't assume that things we
    read (good or bad) about one necessarily apply to the other.
    That's a good thing, since some info on levormeloxifene isn't
    as promising. I still think that slide show referenced a
    couple pages back sums it all up the best.
    A related blurb... I found this while googling. This snippet
    showed up in the results, but I couldn't access the full
    article. It was in a journal on lipidiology, in a 1998 article
    about SERMs for treatment of coronary heart disease:
    "A related compound, levormeloxifene, the L-enantiomer of the
    oral contraceptive ormeloxifene, was recently shown to reduce
    atherosclerosis in cholesterol fed..." rats I assume? Anyway,
    here again they make a distinction between the two chemicals.
    Plus, they refer to ormeloxifene as a contraceptive. Maybe
    this blurb contributes very little, but the puzzle is coming
    together. Looks like there's a lot of similar info online, if
    you have access to the full-text documents.
    Two updates re: me and my journey. Today, at dinner, I took my
    LAST Alesse pill! We toasted to the occasion (iced tea!).
    Actually, there is one Saturday pill left, but it's going in
    the trash. Or I may burn it in protest. :) And, I got a
    notice today that I have a package I apparantly must sign for
    at the post office. I know what that is!... Still, I'm going
    to give my body a month (a cycle) to get itself back on track.
    Then, the next adventure will officially begin.

    rowanthe
    posted December 02, 2005 10:52 PM
    Susan, good luck! Let us know how it goes. If I don't do well
    on the copper IUD I may follow your lead...

    SupaKat
    posted December 02, 2005 11:07 PM
    Good luck Susan!
    Still waiting to get a few of my questions answered before I
    order mine.
    I emailed a man who was responsible for an article about
    ormeloxifene & levormeloxifene. I'll let everyone know if he
    writes me back or not.

    Elkene
    posted December 04, 2005 03:39 PM
    Geez, I just went to the alldaychemist, is that right that a
    pack of Shali is less than USD $1.00 ?!!? Only 80 cents?
    That is soooooo cheap! No wonder the big drug manufacturers
    aren't interested!

    GreenTea
    posted December 04, 2005 03:58 PM
    It's illegal in India to sell any medication above cost. U.S.
    companies are notorious for giving their drugs 300%
    markups--or higher. Combine that with the dollar having a very
    high value over the rupee, and of course any drug sold in
    India will be way, way cheaper.
    Now, I'm not sure if the Indian price control law applies to
    meds sold online for shipment to other countries, so they
    might be able to get away with increasing the price a
    little--but it's still very, very cheap for Americans.
    If you order from All Day, keep in mind that they make a huge
    profit off their shipping fees. When I bought eight packs, I
    spent around $60 U.S.--the rest was in shipping fees. But it
    only cost them the equivalent of $9 to $10 to ship the
    package. Still very, very cheap considering that eight packs
    equals twelve to fifteen months of birth control (depending on
    whether you're a new user or a continuing user).

    greengrl
    posted December 07, 2005 04:49 PM
    Hi All,
    Today was the start of my second post BCP period so I started
    saheli. I was very nervious about it, and for some reason all
    the rest of the day I kept almost expecting something to
    happen, but just had to keep reminding myself that hey, its
    not like a hormonal BCP. I really hope this one works like it
    did for some you you ladies, it would be such a relief!

    Pinkrobot
    posted December 07, 2005 05:40 PM
    Hi All,
    I am a new member, but have been following this thread for a
    month or two now, and I just wanted to thank you all for the
    great information about this "miracle" bc! It really does
    sound like the solution to all our bc woes!
    I have tried several hormonal methods over the past years and
    hated them all. (I just started the ring, but I doubt that
    it's going to be any different than the pill.) Looking back on
    it, I really think a relationship was ruined over my bad
    reaction to hormonal bc. I am a total asexual monster on
    hormones (that aren't my own!) and I am feeling desperate for
    a birth control method that won't turn me into a nightmare. I
    am allergic to spermicide, so that and the sponge are out of
    the question. And condoms just suck - it seems like I go on
    the morning-after-pill every other month due to some "condom
    malfunction" when we're just using condoms. And IUDs sound
    awful.
    I do have one question about Centchroman:
    One of the contraindications is "recent or past history of
    jaundice or liver disease". I had Hepatitis A when I was 8
    years old. I am now 24, and have had my liver checked
    periodically since then, and my liver is always totally fine
    and functioning normally. Does this mean I cannot take
    centchroman?
    I am sure this question would be better answered by a
    doctor... I have heard that Centchroman Club has more doctors
    involved than this site, but I am not able to logon/register
    to the Centchroman Club. I guess others are having the same
    problem.
    Good luck to all you ladies who are trying centchroman! It's
    been so helpful to hear your experiences! If my whole
    hepatitis situation turns out not to be a problem, then I am
    definitely going to try it!

    GreenTea
    posted December 07, 2005 06:33 PM
    Greengrl, way to go! I'm glad to hear you've started Saheli...
    please share your experiences with us if you feel like it. I
    sure understand the nervousness--when I started, my flow
    suddenly turned unusually heavy, and I worried that it was
    going to give me a neverending period like hormones did. But
    it didn't.
    Pinkrobot, if you don't mind, I can post your question on the
    Centchroman Club's board. I already have a thread there for
    questions people here have asked but not been able to post
    there. In fact, like before, I won't wait for permission--if
    you don't like it, sue me. And welcome to our thread!

    SupaKat
    posted December 07, 2005 06:39 PM
    Still waiting for answers to my questions...
    Back on the pill and feeling ANGRY...
    I think I may just say "screw it" to my questions and order
    Centchroman anyway..

    SusanT
    posted December 07, 2005 10:14 PM
    SupaKat... I took that approach, and went ahead and ordered
    Saheli from AllDayChemist even when I wasn't exactly sure what
    I would do once I had it. Considering it was less than 50
    bucks to get just over a year's supply, it was worth it. Plus,
    I knew it would take a couple weeks to arrive. Just taking
    that step felt like progress! There's still more I'd like to
    know, and I intend to keep investigating (and I still really
    want to try to stir up some conversations over at Johns
    Hopkins, when I get a little more time online). But, I felt
    comfortable enough with what I've read to at least get
    started. I didn't have some of the same concerns as you, such
    as re: MAOI and potential interactions.
    greengrl... Cool! Congrats on taking that big step. You're a
    pioneer! I'm ready to join you, just as soon as I get a
    natural cycle going here! Keep usposted!

    Elkene
    posted December 09, 2005 08:18 PM
    Do you have to wait a month for a "natural" period before
    starting Sahlia? At this point I am having a 14-day period so
    if I don't have a period again I won't entirely mind (as long
    as I'm not prego!)
    What about interactions to other medications? I know this
    sounds kind of strange, but what if you're in an accident (or
    need other meds) and Dr's do not know what Centchroman is -
    how will they know what they can/can't give you?
    What about herbal supplements? What is safe with Centchroman?

    GreenTea
    posted December 09, 2005 11:18 PM
    Centchroman has no known drug interactions. As for herbal
    supplements, I take St. John's wort, and have from the
    beginning, and I'm not seeing any interaction. I also drink
    several kinds of herbal tea liberally.
    Of course, you're wise to think about that--we'd only know
    about drug interactions if it interacts with a drug or
    supplement that Indian women of childbearing age would be
    taking--and there may be some in the West that they don't use,
    or not so widely.
    You can start Saheli on a pill period; I know of people who
    have. They say to start on the first day of your period, but I
    don't know how much wiggle room there is. My guess is that,
    because centchroman works by making you ovulate before your
    uterus is ready for implantation, it's important to start at
    the beginning of your cycle so it will start affecting your
    cycle in the right way, right away. Also, there might be the
    same reason as why you're supposed to start steroidal bcp's on
    your period: it proves that you're not pregnant. Waiting for a
    natural period after coming off of hormones is a matter of
    personal choice.

    SusanT
    posted December 10, 2005 06:34 PM
    PINKROBOT... GreenTea took the initiative andposted your
    question about contraindications with "jaundice or liver
    disease" over on the Centchroman Club message board
    (http://groups.msn.com/Centchromanclub) and you'll be happy to
    know that a medical doctor replied with the following (first
    hand experience AND a good explanation!)...
    I am a medical doctor and will try to put my two cents in as
    well. I had Hepatitis A as a child and used Centchroman
    several years later without any problems. The warning about
    "recent history of jaundice or liver disease", in my opinion,
    refers to any cause of recent liver disease that would
    compromise the liver's ability to metabolize the drug and
    excrete it from the body. This would mean accumulation of the
    drug in the body for longer periods and in toxic amounts. This
    is a concern for any drug that is metabolized by the liver.
    These conditions include obstructuive jaundice (i.e. any
    condition that would cause blockage of the biliary system and
    cause bilirubin levels to rise resulting in jaundice). Also
    Hepatitis B & C (both can result in chronic hepatitis and
    cirrhosis of the liver) and alcoholic cirrhosis of liver can
    permamently compromise the liver's ability to metabolize.
    Hepatitis A is an infectious inflammatory condition of the
    liver that usually does not have any long term effects on
    liver functions. So, if you are healthy and have had no liver
    problems since the Hepatitis A infection, you should do fine
    with Centchroman. Atleast that was my experience. Of course,
    it is always advisable to talk to your ObGyn before starting
    the medication.
    [Note from SusanT: Of course it was wise and appropriate for
    the doctor who replied to suggest a talk with your own ObGyn.
    The only problem with that advice is, of course, that most in
    the U.S. probably aren't familiar with Centchroman, and none
    can legally prescribe it. I hope for this to change, but I'm
    not letting it stop me. I did my homework, and I'll be
    starting Saheli with the next period]

    Aphrodite123
    posted December 21, 2005 12:52 PM
    Hi SusanT, thats great. You need to take 2 pills per week for
    the 1st 3 months starting 1st day of ur cycle and the 4th day
    after tht (eg: Sunday, Wed). Do read the instructions on the
    cover and the booklet u get with the pills for dosage.
    If you are located in USA, where r u buyin the pills from.
    Could u please let me knw since I didnt knw thy r available in
    US too and am runnin out of them..
    Thanks....

    Aphrodite123
    posted December 21, 2005 12:58 PM
    Got the info of where u ordered thm from ur prev posts..
    Thanks..

    Yael
    posted December 21, 2005 08:16 PM
    Due to religious restrictions that prohibit the use of any
    barrier method birth control, I've been taking BCP's for over
    3 years now. I started with Ortho-Cyclen for 2 1/2 years and
    then tried Seasonale for 2 packs (about 6 months). I gained 25
    lbs. in the first 6 months on the first pill (grew 4 sizes
    --OUCH!) after never gaining a lb. since age 18. On Seasonale,
    I got the flu both times I withdrew (coincidence?) and had
    terrible breakthrough bleeding. I've been on Yasmin for 7
    months and have developed stomach cramps on a periodic and
    unpredictable basis. I'm fed up with fake hormones.
    Centchroman sounds outstanding but I'm concerned with the lack
    of long term information concerning those oops babies
    conceived while taking the drug. A developing fetus can be
    terribly sensitive to chemical exposure. Of course, I'm the
    type who wouldn't eat artificial sweeteners during pregnancy.
    I take my hat off to you brave pioneers of the Indian drug
    market. I can just hear the FDA warnings about the
    unreliability of foreign drug manufacturers....
    BTW, GreenTea, just how unpredictable were your periods in the
    initial months? How far apart are they currently?

    GreenTea
    posted December 22, 2005 12:44 AM
    Wow... I go offline for almost a week, and so much happens!
    Yael, in answer to your question, my cycle seems to have
    stabilized at just under five weeks. And I have slightly fewer
    menstrual days, too: my periods on Saheli last four to five
    days, while normally they would be six or seven, sometimes
    with last minute spotting on the eighth day. Seems like
    everyone gets longer cycles and shorter periods. You might
    find that a good thing if you're Orthodox Jewish and observe
    menstrual separation. (I'm guessing you are from your
    religious restrictions and your name!)
    In the beginning, my first two periods after starting Saheli
    were a surprisingly regular 33 days apart. After that, I had
    no period for six weeks, then one that felt really strange:
    seven days of medium to light bleeding, and it felt like what
    some women on hormones say about their periods not seeming
    real. I don't know how else to describe it. And, five days
    after it stopped, I had another period, this time with my
    usual bleeding pattern, four or five days long, and it felt
    like the real thing. Since then, I've had one six week cycle,
    one four week cycle, and the rest have been between 31 and 37
    days.
    But that's my experience. You could have more or less
    irregularity. And, especially in the beginning, cycles
    anywhere from three to eight weeks would be nothing unusual.
    From what I've read, it seems like almost all the method
    failures (not someone forgetting a pill, but centchroman
    actually failing) happen during the first two months. Which
    suggests that it's highly effective birth control but does
    take some time to kick in. And makes it especially important
    for anyone starting to be extra careful about not having
    unprotected sex.

    Yael
    posted December 22, 2005 06:31 PM
    Thanks for the info., GreenTea. You guessed correctly about me
    . I'm concerned about the unpredictability of menses on this
    pill because every time I see blood it means 12 days apart
    from my husband (not even casual touching which is the
    toughest part).
    I plan to speak to an acquaintance who's a gyno about it and
    also call my doc who's an infertility specialist (only woman
    gyn on my plan for a 50 mile radius but if anyone's heard of
    something new in gynecologic pharmacology, it's her). My PCP
    is also fantastic and is the type who would be willing to do
    some research for us. The benefits of Centchroman may very
    well outweigh the initial misery with the periods but I still
    need some reassurance from a western medicine source I trust.
    I'll post the results of the conversations if they prove
    interesting.

    GreenTea
    posted December 22, 2005 09:48 PM
    Well, one good thing about centchroman is that it can't cause
    breakthrough bleeding--so you'd bleed when you get your
    period, but that would be it. And most of the time, cycles get
    longer, not shorter. From the internet posts I've read, I
    gather that one really short cycle sometime in the first few
    months might not be unusual (it happened to me, and to at
    least one other person in the Centchroman Club), but they're
    mostly lengthened. And I used to get ovulatory bleeding
    sometimes, but it hasn't happened in the time that I've been
    on centchroman. I have no idea if centchroman has anything to
    do with it or not.
    Does Orthodox Judaism really disallow all barrier methods? I
    thought they allowed diaphragms, caps, and sponges, just not
    condoms... is that not true? I've read that the Talmud even
    recommends cloth soaked with vinegar or olive oil as a
    contraceptive. (I'm sure you get asked questions about your
    religion until you're tired of it, but I am curious.)

    Yael
    posted December 23, 2005 09:24 AM
    I do get asked a lot of questions but I'm not tired of them.
    Barrier methods are only allowed if a couple already has a
    child. It's preferable (by most authorities required) not to
    use ANY bc before the first child but my husband and I simply
    aren't ready to take that step. It's not exactly an easy
    decision both ways. Neither is taking a pill that's untested
    in the U.S. but sounds incredible. A friend who is very
    conservative with her healthcare told me last night that she
    would probably try it for a few months (she can't due to
    polycystic ovaries) so I'm starting to lean toward taking the
    risk. I still want to speak with my docs though. Ask away,
    GreenTea, I'm not shy about my religious choices.

    SusanT
    posted December 23, 2005 11:48 AM
    Yael,
    I'll be really interested to see what your medical
    friends/contacts have to say. My doctor had never heard of it,
    and I gave her some info (such as the fact sheet done by John
    Hopkins University). She basically said she is open to
    patients pursuing alternatives they find out about on their
    own if they are comfortable with it, and was quick to point
    out that the lack of FDA approval in the U.S. hardly means
    that something is "unsafe" or "untested." They've done a lot
    of work in India, and women there have been using it (perhaps
    not widely) for 10 years. I'll be starting it with my next
    period, probably around the New Year (appropriate - a new
    beginning!). I'm excited, and comfortable with the minor
    lingering uncertainties there may be. Good luck with your own
    quest for the right bc solution, and do keep usposted if you
    get feedback!

    Yael
    posted December 30, 2005 09:11 AM
    I spoke with my primary doc and my gyn who both told me that
    Centchroman sounds very interesting. My primary told me that I
    would have to be crazy to take a drug linked only to India. I
    thought his attitude was pretty bad and my gyn told me as
    much.
    My gyn was very intrigued. She also told me that, at my stage
    of life which is pre-family, she believes it's too risky to
    use a drug that doesn't have any long-term studies of its
    effects on children. She specifically referenced Thalidomide,
    which was widely tested and reported in the U.S. and we all
    know what happened there and my primary referenced Vioxx on a
    similiar discouraging note. (Which leads me to believe that
    none of them are truly safe but I digress.) On a brighter
    note, she is researching this and, depending on her findings,
    is planning on suggesting to her drug reps that they do some
    U.S. trials. This could be the start of something great.
    My gyn also mentioned that she has a large number of Indian
    patients and finds it odd that none of them ever mentioned
    using Centchroman or asked for it. She also found it odd that
    we aren't seeing it used or tested in Europe, which she says
    is the corridor of new drugs to the U.S.
    One last note: there is another SERM that is widely used in
    the U.S. called Evista. My gyn and primary both said they know
    of no studies of its use for birth control. She also mentioned
    that use of SERMS have been linked to uterine cancer.
    I'll let y'all know the results of her findings as soon as I
    get her call. In the meantime, I think I'll stick with the
    beast that I know. Best luck to all and best wishes for a
    happy, healthy new year.

    Aphrodite123
    posted December 30, 2005 02:09 PM
    Hi SusanT
    Could you please tell me the expiry date of the Saheli you've
    got from AllDayChemist? Wanted to know what Expiry date tabs
    they are sending before I could place my order.
    Thanks...

    GreenTea
    posted December 30, 2005 03:15 PM
    Aphrodite,
    I don't know what expiry date SusanT got, but mine were two
    and a half years away from expiration when I got them: I
    ordered in March, 2005, and my pills expire in October, 2007.
    Yael,
    Your primary sounds very narrow minded, to say the least. Good
    to see your gyn so intrigued, but it sounds like she's being
    overcautious. (Of course, I was desperate enough to see the
    risk as worth it for me--and I've never had children, either.
    So maybe I want it to be perfect--but, in my experience so
    far, centchroman is as close to perfect as I've gotten. I also
    think the Indian Ministry of Health is better than the FDA
    about approving good drugs--at the very least, they're not
    driven by profit, because India's drug research is mostly, if
    not entirely, nonprofit. And they did far more testing of
    centchroman than the Americans did on the original birth
    control pill, and, unlike the original pill, none of the test
    subjects died of it!)
    Even some Indian gyns are like your primary doc about
    centchroman, if you go and read all the posts at the
    centchroman club. One poster said that a gyn (in India)
    recommended steroidal pills, despite the nasty side effects,
    because he (the gyn) had never heard of centchroman. Even in
    India, the word isn't as out as it ought to be, and
    distribution not as widespread. Probably because it's made in
    a nonprofit lab, so no advertising budget or campaign to speak
    of--seems that India is very, very good at making good drugs,
    but not at getting them out there.
    And yes, some SERM's are linked to cancer, but centchroman is
    a different one with not necessarily the same effects. Just
    because it's an SERM does not make it the same as Evista,
    tamoxifen, or others. We went into that around pages 5-7 of
    this discussion, posting links to articles like crazy. I
    missed a lot of the articles because (a) my computer can't
    download ppt files in any readable form, and (b) I have a
    terrible time with technical science articles--they just make
    my eyes glaze over and my mind go blank! But it seems that
    they haven't turned up any cancer causing properties for
    centchroman, which is a good sign.
    Finally, your gyn's Indian patients probably wouldn't be
    asking her for centchroman because they wouldn't expect it to
    be available in America, or an American gyn to know anything
    about it. They might not be taking it because, like I said,
    the word isn't much out even in India.
    If you're more comfortable sticking with "the beast you know,"
    of course it's your call. It's certainly not enough to put me
    off of centchroman, though, nor should it be for anyone who's
    up for trying the unknown.

    Aphrodite123
    posted January 02, 2006 11:33 PM
    Yeal, the the reason for - Quote: "My gyn also mentioned that
    she has a large number of Indian patients and finds it odd
    that none of them ever mentioned using Centchroman or asked
    for it."
    MAYBE :
    I am an Indian and live here in USA and if I were to go to a
    doc in USA, I would not ask for Saheli (Centchoroman) since
    1) I know for sure it is not available in USA so 99% chances
    are the doc hasnt heard of it
    2) Indians (born and brought up in India but working / settled
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2013

     

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  2. GreenTea

    GreenTea Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is what is left of the very first thread about Centchroman. The real thread was much longer than this, well over 500 posts. It ran from September 2005 to March 2006, when it was closed, moved to the Archive, and a Centchroman Part Two thread began.

    Around April 2009, this first Centchroman thread mysteriously disappeared from the Archive. Diana managed to recover part of it. Since the vote (from all of you) has gone in favor of keeping what remains of the thread, it has been moved here for everyone's viewing pleasure.

    Centchroman Part Two is still available in the Archive.

    For those who were here for the discussion that started it all, here is a trip down memory lane. For newer members, a taste of how it all began here at Aphrodite.

     

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  3. MyrtleWarbler

    MyrtleWarbler Super Moderator Staff Member

    And for the record, I am SusanT [​IMG] I later changed my username.

     

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  4. MrsFD

    MrsFD New Member

    I remember the original threads and after time away I'm back!

    I took Centchroman from the end of 2005 until 2008. Having gotten married in 2006. My husband and I decided to start a family and so I stopped taking the pills. I convinced quickly and once my son was born we used condoms because I was breast feeding and busy! We decided in 2010 to have our second child and although we talked about re starting we didn't get round to it.

    So my youngest is two and we're happy with our two little ones we've started back on the pills and I decided to.sign back up again.com

    I'm thrilled that the group is still going strong!

    First table of the 3 month cycle taken.......let's see how the journey pans out!

     

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  5. ReanDori5

    ReanDori5 New Member

    А regular copper IUD will mаkе іt worse. Mirena іs progesterone оnlу sо іt thins thе lining оf уоur uterus making уоur periods lighter аnd lеss painful. Copper dоеsn't mаkе іt worse bесаusе уоur body іs "trying tо gеt rid оf it". Тhе belief іs thаt copper mаkеs periods worse duе tо sоmе sort оf immune reaction. Νо оnе іs surе 100% but іt dоеs mаkе endo worse. Mirena dіd WONDERS fоr me. Іt соuld mаkе уоur intersticial cystitis worse. (It dіd fоr mу best friend.)

    You mіght nееd sоmе progesterone tо gеt уоur periods undеr control. Тhе ring mіght bе уоur best option. Аn IUD hаs vеrу little, іf аnу systemic side effects. Тhе ring hаs а fеw more, but fаr lеss thаn а regular pill.

    Herbals - Іf уоu trulу wіsh іt pursue thаt route it's intense. Іt dіd work fоr mе but І wаs unable tо kеер uр wіth it. It's red raspberry leaf tea (several quarts/day) іn addition tо а woman's formula (I mаdе mine). Herbsfirst.com hаs оnе thаt іs pretty good actually. Yоu nееd tо tаkе іt 4x/day оn аn empty stomach. Yоu саn аlsо dо а slant board routine whеrе уоu mаkе suppositories fоr yourself. It's messy but it's supposed tо bе useful.

    Your diet nееds tо bе STRICTLY VEGAN. ΝО DAIRY іs thе mоst іmроrtаnt rule - mоrе іmроrtаnt thаn nо meat. Тhе reason іs thаt milk products, еsресіаllу cheese, еvеn іf organic, соntаіn high amounts оf estrogen whісh mаkе endo WORSE. Іt саn tаkе months fоr thе diet tо work. І'vе bееn оn аnd оff аnd І аlwауs feel better whеn I'm vegan fоr а while. Yоu hаvе tо bе super strict fоr іt tо work.

    I hаvе trіеd adding progestrone, іn bоth а progestron оnlу BC pill, аnd аs а cream. Νо matter what, adding hormones tо thе mix fоr mе mаkеs mу life еvеn mоrе hellish (when іm semi constant іn pain іt uрs іt tо constant, іf аlwауs іn pain mаkеs іt sever, ext)

    Yeah,I gоt sоmе books оn diet, аnd іt іs lооkіng imposible. Moreso nоw thаt уоu sау іt соuld tаkе months tо find оut іf іt works sіnсе І thіnk І соuld аt MAX live а month, реrhарs а month аnd а bit оf іt nоt working bеfоrе І gаvе up. І dіd buy а book hоwеvеr wіth recipies, іt јust scares mе sіnсе І know, reolisticaly speaking... I'm а fussy eater аs іs аnd lіkеlу will hate eating аnуthіng іn there. hоwеvеr mу grandmother, whо іs gernaly vеrу nieave asked mе hоw thе diet wаs going аnd claims shе will dо аll shе саn tо feed mе thе rіght meals whеnеvеr і аm аrоund her... (she nеvеr hаs fоr mу mothers evear helth nееds but оh well) аnd І beleive І аm sееіng hеr аt thе start оf nехt month fоr а week sо І plan tо bring thе books wіth mе аnd іf shе RЕАLLY wаnts tо gіvе іt а shot, shе can. аnd реrhарs thаt wау І will gеt tо trу thе foods wіthоut thе dislike fоr thе time І аlsо рut іntо makeing thеm myself. whо knows.

    Thing is, І doubt shе wоuld eat thе meal wіth mе аnd І thіnk І will mаkе а rule thаt іf shе will bе bitchty tо mе fоr nоt fоllоwіng thе diet (I knоw her, shе will) shе hаs tо аt lеаst eat thе meals wіth mе whіlе І аm there. (she lives оn coffee, red wine, аnd оnе meal а day thаt hаs red meat generaly іn it, butter, salt, аnd іf аt аll posible cream) sо І wonder hоw thаt will go.

    I dіd trу vegitarian, аlsо wіthоut dairy (since hаd аn alergy tо milk bасk then) whеn і wаs younger, аnd І fоund іt dіd nothing, thаt wаs fоr 2 months оr so... оf course аt thе time thе docs failed tо mention thе avoiding soy (and І rаthеr dіd sіnсе І hate soy) but still.

     

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